PDA

View Full Version : Response to: Athena's Economy


Aydam
02-23-2008, 01:19 AM
I felt I needed to make a new thread on this topic so that everyone would grasp the concept of how and why the economy is going the way it is. (Feel free to rep down or up or sideways or whatever based on your beliefs I don't really care)

CLICK HERE FOR ORIGINAL POST (http://forums.ijji.com/showthread.php?t=161688)

Original Post call for action:
I feel that the plans that the OP, ##Bow##, proposed were of good intention, but unrealistic. To try and get everyone to only pay the prices he set is impossible to achieve. For one, not everyone who plays Luminary even visits these forums. So there is no way the message was getting out to everyone. But lets just say that it did, does anyone really believe everyone would "play by the rules", so to speak. At some point, greed and laziness takes over us all and quite frankly we will price, sell, and buy our goods at whatever price we want.

Reasons for Inflation:
This is really quite simple, supply and demand. Granted that things like Iron Ore and Lilly Roots are all free if we choose to go out and hunt them ourselves; however, people don't always want to go out and collect 500 pieces of Oak or whatever they need. And if someone is already out there collecting it, then deciding to sell it, why not just buy it? The end result is the Market that we all know and love to use. Here in lies the issue of supply and demand. The supply of everyday items, in this case minerals, is provided by everyone although not everyone wants to sell their supply. They sometimes would rather use it for themselves and whats more buy more of the stock to use as well. Therefore the demand of the item is now higher then the supply and people are willing to pay more for an item that is harder to come by. If someone is paying more for the same item I am selling for less, then my natural instinct is to raise the price of my item and make more profit.

The true player Solution:
The only real solution we have to fight inflation is to increase the supply so that it exceeds the demand. So how does the world of Athena accomplish this? NEW PLAYERS After time, when the amount of people joining the game starts to slow from 100 new people a day to 10 new people a day, you end up with more and more higher level characters with "too much bloody money", if I may quote Nicholas Cage in Gone in Sixty Seconds. If everyone has so much money, then they are all willing to spend it more frequently. However, players new to the game are unsure of how to make money and what is and isn't a lot of money, so they will try and sell pretty much everything they find and make as soon as they can to make some more money. Now if you have 100 new people all trying to do this, the market becomes flooded with what they are trying to sell, and therefore you start seeing prices drop as everyone is trying to undersell the previous person so that there stuff moves faster. Ergo, the supply is now high. And guess what, tomorrow another 100 players is added to that so prices drop even more. This then results in those higher level big spenders all having more ability to make their goods and increases the supply of what they are trying to sell. Once again, everyone wants to make their money faster, so they all try to undersell each other. The reverse trickle effect.

A GM solution:
The other way to fight inflation is only something a GM could accomplish and that is to decrease the demand. The way they could do this is to insert new and different items to the game like armors and weapons and so on that require different materials or just less. New items are always in high demand because everyone wants to be one of the first to have them or just try them out for themselves. This creates less demand for what was originally the prime sellers throughout Athena, until it possibly drops below the supply.


The majority of MMORPGs all go through the inflation of the economy as we our beginning to experience. We just have to keep in mind that although it costs us 2000 per iron ore, the price we sell what we make with that iron ore goes up as well. So in reality, it may seem like we are spending a lot more, but we are also making a lot more. Its just the cost of living has increased.

If inflation is not stopped, it is not the end of the world. So don't worry about it Athena, we will all be just fine in the end.

{K}evlar
02-23-2008, 01:29 AM
Why do people care about this at all, I think it's silly :/

Any when has iron ore become 2k a piece, I usually see it at 1k :O

LinLan
02-23-2008, 02:15 AM
Reasons for Inflation
Average [m] per player ratio is higher. Supply n demand is true for price of single raw material but increase in 1 raw material doesnt mean inflation occurs, inflation would mean price of every item (Hanynag>Minister phoenix>average price) got higher.
The true player Solution ; NEW PLAYERS
Note that any new player rises demand as well.
A GM solution
Adding new items would rise prices of raw materials needed to manufactire them.
Changing drop rates would be the easiest way , its not going to happen because some raw mats can be exported/imported to/from other Luminary servers by trade port (near Lahore).

Zaelion
02-23-2008, 02:25 AM
Inflation–noun
1. Economics. a persistent, substantial rise in the general level of prices related to an increase in the volume of money and resulting in the loss of value of currency

Inflation has nothing to do with supply and demand. Inflation is from new money in the economy. every artisan support fund, white tiger fund, magic lamp quest, selling to wallace, selling to angelet, ect... this is inflation.

Aydam
02-23-2008, 04:23 AM
hmmm.... a few Economic's majors in our mist I see...
or at least people who know how to Google the definition of inflation. j/k :p

Well terminology aside, whatever you want to call it I still believe its the case.


Note that any new player rises demand as well.

I'll give you that. But it is not true that newer players are more willing to sell their goods at lower prices to make a quick marble? I think the idea of "Pshops" open in relation to Buying these goods at lower prices is credit to this theory. I mean, I actually had my "Pshop" open the entire time I wrote this and the only people who were selling me Oak for 500m a piece were characters level 29 or less. (I was in Tiny Thicket)

Adding new items would rise prices of raw materials needed to manufactire them.
Changing drop rates would be the easiest way , its not going to happen because some raw mats can be exported/imported to/from other Luminary servers by trade port (near Lahore).

I think I mislead you I kinda meant new items in terms of new mats as well as things to make.
Also, I don't know what server your on but our Trade Port in Athena is currently non-operational. At least it was the last 2 times I checked that is.

FrozenSushi
02-23-2008, 08:11 AM
Market Market Market lol, No one is forcing anyone to use the market its ones self laziness to hunt so don't complain about the market cuz in reality all materials are free if you just hunt, mine, farm or fish it. hehe

OneVoice
02-23-2008, 12:08 PM
Love the same post Sushi haha.

And Aydam like I tell all players that dont know abotu tradeport/or dont think its important: It will change almost every items cost in this game...

Fourleafs will be a great way to introduce a lot more mats to the game and I am thinking these mats should help balance all that "extra" money we have out there now.

There are certain things that rlly havent helped the inflation either that we have now, including almost every town I know of the first 5 to trade 10 bamboo for 5k+30-80% of that bamboo back. Millions of dollars were introduced into the game that shouldnt be here. A lot of our buildings should have took a lot more work/marbs to get and so it is no suprise that we are seeing this now.

Ankyz
02-23-2008, 08:41 PM
the economy of luminary will be like that and we cant do anything about it
even if i go to market and put 10k iron ores for 500m each , everyone will buy my iron ores , eventually some1 will go and put for 480 , then other person for 400 and the prices will go down , but in close future , all the iron ores will be brought and they will be back to 1k , then 1.3k and bla bla
it will be like that always

in global , silk and stuff is at 5k each
get usted :P
just go hunt urself ur mats , the market wont change anytime soon , ppl actually dont care about other ppl so they will just sell as higher as they can
thats life.

SpongeCola
02-24-2008, 12:05 AM
hmm, that was very thought out.

i dont mind undercutting someone else to get my mats sold. when i need marble, i'll buy all the mats under 3k and sell them all for 3k lol.

but yeh, prices are getting ridiculous. i have no problem farming for mats and selling my surplus. but i am one of those players too lazy to farm my own pots and food. i dont mind spending 90k on pots and 60k on food whenever i play :cry:

Aydam
02-24-2008, 08:53 AM
And Aydam like I tell all players that dont know abotu tradeport/or dont think its important: It will change almost every items cost in this game...

Fourleafs will be a great way to introduce a lot more mats to the game and I am thinking these mats should help balance all that "extra" money we have out there now.


oh no, i do desire tradeport to open and think it will have an effect, I just want the darn thing to OPEN. And could you tell me where you get your information on Fourleafs and how the trade port will work? Up till now I have not been able to find much on it.

FrozenSushi
02-24-2008, 09:30 AM
As of now you guys shouldn't even worry about tradeports we have no idea when ijji will put tradeports into effect, could be months.

The Market prices will always go up and down, but mainly up its part of life. :doh:

JeffTheKing
02-26-2008, 07:26 PM
Why do people care about this at all, I think it's silly :/

Any when has iron ore become 2k a piece, I usually see it at 1k :O

LOL.You only say that because you don't enchant your weapons.People who enchant their weapons need stones and that costs serious $.

SpongeCola
02-27-2008, 11:21 AM
LOL.You only say that because you don't enchant your weapons.People who enchant their weapons need stones and that costs serious $.

yeh i can't believe how much stones are :mad:
i usually just trade for mats i need, including stones

Anarith
03-11-2008, 01:37 PM
dude you can't just change economy, not even with 10 people, you only affect it a bit

Aydam
03-11-2008, 02:24 PM
dude you can't just change economy, not even with 10 people, you only affect it a bit

somehow...i missed your point

UnknowLP
03-12-2008, 04:01 AM
>___< Glad someone bump this forum to page 1 before I post the cause of inflation (double post)
~had been talking to many varies player about it recently.

Though I still havent figure out proper solutions to this (if any)
It wont nor can be solved with either of the solution above.
Player will always try to compete with eachother (which reduced manufacture request to 0 commission~etc)
The circultation of matz usage and cost is what is maintaining our server from overflow. (needed)
The tradeport brings varies possibility but til its added - We just have to live by our current dilemma.

Ie. Current Goonzu on both server started to sell 4leafs in market (ours sells them at 200k)
Player(s) buy them and sell it for 400-700k.
Counter solution against reseller: Say more will be sold at 200k.
Did it work - no > player who earn 800k+ per 4 leaf will still buy them.


I disagree with what Ankyz is saying (or choosing not to accept the "facts"!)
If a player hunts everything he/she used like I had been doing - there wont be any market.
"Solo gaming isnt why I started to play (MMO)RPG games" < quoted by me.

But thinking that there isnt anything 1 as individual or group or whole server can do to change it.
Its isn't just not helpful to the matter but its .

Bugs Bunny
03-13-2008, 11:59 AM
dude you can't just change economy, not even with 10 people, you only affect it a bit

You realise that even affecting the econmy a bit is better than nothing right? Okay lets do some math(I know you may not want to but,):

Lets say there are 1000 players(In total)

10/1000=0.01*100=1%

The price for Iron Ore is 1500

1500*1%=1.5

1500-1.5=1499.5

Well, guess what??We just lowered prices now didnt we?And wastn that the point of the original thread?

SpongeCola
03-13-2008, 12:21 PM
people try by selling high priced items at lower prices to help new players buy things
but, rich luminary players buy them all and resell for higher prices
i know, i am one of them. lol. i wont deny it!!!

anyways, there are fourleafs because there is a goonzu
on athena, voice sells fourleafs hourly at 200k ea
those higher than 200k are people who got fourleafs
and are trying to profit

LinLan
03-13-2008, 05:50 PM
Price is set by demand and supply , resseling is only possible because some ppl put underpriced orders, try selling iron ore for 10k[m] ea -> happy w8ing

If you rly wanna drop prices then rise supply or lower demand , that means hunting mat for sale (rising supply) or hunting instead of buing (lowering demand)

TheWolfe'sLegacy
03-15-2008, 12:52 PM
dude you can't just change economy, not even with 10 people, you only affect it a bit
well i dun tink u know tat small changes still = changes..
underprice items r usually done by the same guy.. since he tinks tat its at a fair rate n he could earn alittle off it..
so if u chgn tat guy.. 1 gone! then now u got 2 guys hu doesnt underprice items.. then 2 of it can take out another 2 which makes 4!! etc... u get BOOM ! a massive change...
a small contribution stacks up to make a big change man..

CeruleanRanger
03-16-2008, 03:01 PM
One person with tons of money can change the whole economy.